Open mind

Joined

• started 385 topics
• posted 6,386 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by Open mind

• 
  23

  Son to JW school-mate: "Go ahead. Tell the Jewish girl how the Jewish holiday REALLY happened."

  by Open mind in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my family (wife and teenage kids) and i awakened to the true nature of the wt society a couple years ago and are fairly well faded now.. .

  my son attends high school with a couple of jws, one of whom is an elder's son and an ardent true believer.

  let's call him "con".

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Open mind

  Note to sizemik: Looks like I've made it onto djegnogg's Do Not Call list too.

  Oh well.

  om
• 
  23

  Son to JW school-mate: "Go ahead. Tell the Jewish girl how the Jewish holiday REALLY happened."

  by Open mind in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my family (wife and teenage kids) and i awakened to the true nature of the wt society a couple years ago and are fairly well faded now.. .

  my son attends high school with a couple of jws, one of whom is an elder's son and an ardent true believer.

  let's call him "con".

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Open mind

  stapler99: "It looks as if Con has been the victim of religious bigotry."

  How so? My son never said a word to him. I'm guessing you missed this part of the OP.

  "My son is biting his tongue, rolling his eyes and screaming to himself: "

  Con managed to look like an arrogant know-it-all in front of everyone else all on his own.

  You make a valid point about both religions having a cultural claim to the Passover, although it's way more peripheral for JWs. However, being aware of how society at large views a given holiday is a good idea particularly for those looking to persuade and proselytize. Jews have laid claim to the Passover for thousand of years. JWs to a much lesser degree and for only 130 years.

  If I was Con trying to make a good impression to my classmates about JWs, I would have let the Jewish girl do her thing and then discreetly made inquiries later.

  Just my $.02

  flipper: Thanks for commiserating bro.

  om
• 
  23

  Son to JW school-mate: "Go ahead. Tell the Jewish girl how the Jewish holiday REALLY happened."

  by Open mind in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my family (wife and teenage kids) and i awakened to the true nature of the wt society a couple years ago and are fairly well faded now.. .

  my son attends high school with a couple of jws, one of whom is an elder's son and an ardent true believer.

  let's call him "con".

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Open mind

  To hamsterbait and sizemik:

  I've never entered into any back-and-forth with djeggnog before, just thought I'd give it a shot.

  It will probably be about as rewarding as my dialogue with renaiia.

  om
• 
  23

  Son to JW school-mate: "Go ahead. Tell the Jewish girl how the Jewish holiday REALLY happened."

  by Open mind in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my family (wife and teenage kids) and i awakened to the true nature of the wt society a couple years ago and are fairly well faded now.. .

  my son attends high school with a couple of jws, one of whom is an elder's son and an ardent true believer.

  let's call him "con".

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Open mind

  Doubting Bro: "So, I'll apologize to all JWs for that."

  With all the bashing of "False Religion" that the JWs do, it's hard not to bash back. Hell, I do plenty of it myself.

  Having the occasional JW apologist on here does us all good though, IMO. Helps keep us from exaggerating and overstating which could send a timid lurker scampering right back to the K Hall.

  So, thank you, djeggnogg, your presence here emboldens fence-sitting JWs to continue reading here. After all, if it's OK for someone as "spiritually strong" as you to be here, it must also be OK for Joe Irregular publisher with doubts. Carry on.

  om
• 
  23

  Son to JW school-mate: "Go ahead. Tell the Jewish girl how the Jewish holiday REALLY happened."

  by Open mind in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my family (wife and teenage kids) and i awakened to the true nature of the wt society a couple years ago and are fairly well faded now.. .

  my son attends high school with a couple of jws, one of whom is an elder's son and an ardent true believer.

  let's call him "con".

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Open mind

  One other point I'd like to make about JW's and arrogance. How can a JW avoid a certain degree of arrogance when you KNOW you are right and that the Almighty Creator of the Universe is backing you and has commissioned you to "witness" to people? I don't see how it can be avoided.

  My 2nd generation JW father is a master of trying to make it look like he's actually listening to the householder and allowing for the possibility that they might be right, but at his core, he's always right.

  That's a mindset I'm still trying to shake off.

  om
• 
  23

  Son to JW school-mate: "Go ahead. Tell the Jewish girl how the Jewish holiday REALLY happened."

  by Open mind in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my family (wife and teenage kids) and i awakened to the true nature of the wt society a couple years ago and are fairly well faded now.. .

  my son attends high school with a couple of jws, one of whom is an elder's son and an ardent true believer.

  let's call him "con".

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Open mind

  OK, I'm on break right now and will try to address most of djeggnogg's points. Everyone else, thanks for your replies so far.
  
  "Pray tell, what is our "true nature"?"
  
  That expression was intended to give a quick background snap shot that most readers here would understand. I won't pursue that any further in this thread and I'm pretty sure you've hashed that out with many here before me.
  
  "Not Con, but your son could have asked "Yelysaveta" if she knew why the Jews today don't also view the day the Israelites left Egypt after midnight to be passover when passover didn't end until the next evening?"
  
  I think you're missing or ignoring the central point of my thread which was:
  
  "What struck my son and myself was the total lack of awareness of how arrogant he must have looked. Even if Yelysaveta was wrong, wouldn't it be better to let the person FROM the culture explain it, and then if you've got a problem with it, ask her about it later?"
  
  If a Native American student from the Pacific Northwest was relating a story of how "potlatches" worked and I happen to have a PhD in Native American studies (I don't, BTW) calling him out in front of everyone else on how he may be wrong on a couple of points is rude and arrogant, IMO. Even if I use a question to accomplish it, I'm still being an off-putting know-it-all.
  
  Blind of Lies and Doubting Bro took a couple of sweeping generalizations swipes at JWs which can be cathartic but usually not totally fair. But then you picked up the sweeping generalization baton and slammed Baptists with the same technique.
  
  "I believe these were the children of Jehovah's Witnesses, not Jehovah's Witnesses."
  
  Actually I didn't specify their baptismal status, but if we're talking about a Elder's son in High School, more often than not, he's gonna already be baptized. In this case, "Con" took the plunge at the wise old age of 13. That's a pretty typical age around here.
  
  "You see, I learned very young in life that if people are going to continue to think you are smart, you cannot give them the answers to the questions you ask them; "
  
  Thanks for opening up a bit about your childhood background. Seriously.
  
  "And today you'd probably get a phone call from the school indicating how your son was charged with assault."
  Agreed.

  om
• 
  23

  Son to JW school-mate: "Go ahead. Tell the Jewish girl how the Jewish holiday REALLY happened."

  by Open mind in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my family (wife and teenage kids) and i awakened to the true nature of the wt society a couple years ago and are fairly well faded now.. .

  my son attends high school with a couple of jws, one of whom is an elder's son and an ardent true believer.

  let's call him "con".

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Open mind

  My family (wife and teenage kids) and I awakened to the true nature of the WT Society a couple years ago and are fairly well faded now.
  
  My son attends high school with a couple of JWs, one of whom is an elder's son and an ardent true believer. Let's call him "Con". (Short for Condescending.)
  
  So my son and Con have one class together and during some downtime while the teacher was out of the room and the class had time to kill, the topic of Spring/ Easter / Passover came up. So somebody says, "Hey, Yelysaveta (not her real name), you're Jewish right? What's the back story on the Passover?"
  
  So Yelysaveta starts relating a pretty standard version of the Israelites in Egypt and the splashing of the blood on the lentil, yadda yadda. When she's all done Con pipes in with this:
  
  "That's not how it happened!"
  
  My son is biting his tongue, rolling his eyes and screaming to himself: "Right. Go ahead Con. In front of all these people, you, the Jehovah's Witness, tell the Jewish girl all about how the Jewish holiday works."
  
  What struck my son and myself was the total lack of awareness of how arrogant he must have looked. Even if Yelysaveta was wrong, wouldn't it be better to let the person FROM the culture explain it, and then if you've got a problem with it, ask her about it later?
  
  Turns out, Con, the know-it-all JW was confusing the story of Jesus and the apostles celebrating Passover v. 1500 with the first one.
  
  Face palm!
  
  om
• 
  23

  Had another "Aha!" moment reading last Sunday's WT.

  by Open mind in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  since waking up to "the truth about the truth" several years ago there have been numerous "aha!

  " moments.

  i also think of them as "how could i have been so stupid?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Open mind

  Very well said Shawn10538.

  A pretty smart JW once told me that "illustrations don't prove a thing". He would then go on to relate the fantastic "illustration" (that's the only word JWs know for analogy, simile, metaphor, etc.) of how water illustrates the trinity. Three separate phases, vapor, liquid, solid, but still all the same compound. It's a great illustration, but it still doesn't make the trinity true ( or false ).

  Thanks for all the comments so far. I wish I had the time today to do a proper Flipper-style acknowledgement of everyone, but alas, kids, a dog, and a soon-to-arrive-after-working-all-day wife preclude that just now.

  om
• 
  23

  Had another "Aha!" moment reading last Sunday's WT.

  by Open mind in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  since waking up to "the truth about the truth" several years ago there have been numerous "aha!

  " moments.

  i also think of them as "how could i have been so stupid?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Open mind

  Still Thinking: "Maybe they are promoting drinking more coffee.......you never know...they might have shares in the company."

  Hey! Maybe the old apostate, Mr. Coffee, standing outside Bethel back in the 80's was right after all!

  om
• 
  23

  Had another "Aha!" moment reading last Sunday's WT.

  by Open mind in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  since waking up to "the truth about the truth" several years ago there have been numerous "aha!

  " moments.

  i also think of them as "how could i have been so stupid?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Open mind

  Since waking up to "the truth about The Truth" several years ago there have been numerous "Aha!" moments. I also think of them as "How could I have been so stupid?" moments.
  
  When I first read that "Babylon the Great" was John's code for the Roman Empire...."Aha!". It fits quite well, IMO.
  
  Anyway, yesterday's WT lesson on "Watchfulness" contained a new "Aha!" for me.
  
  The false comparison between the apostles falling asleep and the need for "watchfulness" in your life in general.
  
  The apostles fell asleep on Jesus last night of freedom here on earth. Big frikkin' whoop. Does the account say they fell asleep because they didn't care? No. People can fall asleep while driving, in combat, etc.... It doesn't make them a bad person.
  
  Does the WT make this direct comparison? Yes. Paragraph 3 says:
  
  "Surely the apostles regretted their failure to keep
  
  on the watch. Those faithful men quickly learned
  
  from their mistake. The Bible book of Acts shows
  
  that they went on to set an outstanding example in
  
  keeping watchful. "
  
  Is the WT saying that they became masters of managing sleep deprivation? I don't think so.
  
  It wasn't a huge "Aha!", but I'm adding it to my list.
  
  Any you'd like to share?
  
  om